roz
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by roz on Nov 22, 2018 20:24:02 GMT -5
Thank you. That’s a great idea. The first question is why are all our neon fish dying. Everyday we have a neon fish die. Hopefully someone can help us figure out what is happening to our cool fish. Thx.
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Post by lesfromlakeshore on Nov 23, 2018 7:58:49 GMT -5
This could be from a couple of different things . Possibly the tank wasn’t fully cycled or it could be that the neons were under sized and just couldn’t adjust to the new tank .
Have you had a chance to do a small parcel water change ?
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Post by Crazygar on Nov 23, 2018 13:13:04 GMT -5
Basic water stats would help. Temp, pH and change schedule to start. Also, how they were acclimated to their new tank. Neons of today are not like the Neons when I was around the same age as your students. They were much hardier back then, over the years, the Farm raised variety has taken hold and they seem to rather weak compared to their wild caught cousins. While its a bit of a dictomony in regards to Wild Caught (which should be sensitive) to Farm Raised (which should be hardy). I've been somewhat successful in keeping Neons alive for 2 years but never further than that. Check this out; www.google.ca/search?q=neon+tetras+lifespan&oq=Neon+Tetras+lifespan&aqs=chrome.0.0l6.2929j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8Even myself, a seasoned Aquarist has had difficulty with these fish. What is currently in the tank besides the Neons? Gary
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roz
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by roz on Nov 23, 2018 13:47:24 GMT -5
Zebra Danios are the only other fish with them and they ate doing well. No I haven’t done anything with the water yet. I appreciate your feedback.
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roz
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by roz on Nov 23, 2018 13:48:03 GMT -5
Sorry the Danios are doing well.
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Post by Crazygar on Nov 23, 2018 15:00:52 GMT -5
Ok, we can take this step by step;
First is basic water statistics. pH and Temperature are always HUGE factors for any fish. Some fish like more alkaline (Danios) while others prefer either Neutral or Acidic (Neons).
While Fish can accommodate some parameters out of their comfort range it is always good practice to select the fish for the water, not the other way around. If your water is Alkaline, I say Danios and those with a preference would do (pun intended) swimmingly in this situation.
Danios are also quite active fish. Neons are a bit more on the timid side. But we can get into Fish Psych 101 a later date. First water setup. pH and Temperature when you can. From there we can determine the best course of action.
No problem for the help, if it even gets one of the students into Fish keeping as a hobby for life, it's all worth it.
Gary
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Post by Xander on Nov 23, 2018 23:39:50 GMT -5
Windsor water tends to come from the tap closer to neutral, and gas off to about 7.6-7.8 pH. In my sister's area, it also comes with about 0.25 ammonia.
But before testing for water parameters, let's start by making it simple here, and understand WHY this is most likely happening.
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Simply put, for the children's sake:
> Fish poop, and the poop makes a chemical called ammonia. The filter needs time to grow bacteria that will eat the ammonia. > Then, those bacteria poop, and their poop comes in the form of a chemical called nitrite. The filter needs time to grow a second bacteria that eat the nitrite. > Those bacteria poop, in the form of the chemical called nitrate. There are no bacteria that will grow to eat the nitrate, so we remove the water containing the nitrate with water changes and dilute what's there.
> Ammonia and nitrite can be deadly to the fish, even in small amounts. > Nitrate is much safer for the fish to live in, as long as it doesn't get too high.
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These are the facts, so what do we aquarium keepers do with these facts?
A fully cycled tank (where the filters have all their bacteria necessary) will be able to take all of the ammonia and nitrite and convert it into nitrate before it can do any harm to your fish. It can take as long as a month or two for a filter to grow enough bacteria to support your fish. I'm operating under the assumption that your tank is still in ammonia or nitrite mode, since it hasn't been established for too long, and still needs time to get to nitrate mode. you can absolutely use chemistry kits to test exactly where you're at, but I really don't find that to be necessary, knowing what we know.
With the 2 schools of Zebras and Neons added all at once, it is very safe to assume the fish simply overwhelmed the tank's filters, and the cycle wasn't strong enough to keep up with their waste production. Too much ammonia spiked, and it did harm. The Zebras are an incredibly robust and hardy fish. They can usually handle an ammonia spike, where the Neons are much more fragile.
The problem of ammonia and nitrite can be cured very simply: by using water changes to remove and dilute them. I would personally recommend doubling your water changes to two a week for the next month or so, while the filters are working on catching up to the biological waste produced by the danios. The danios can handle the chemicals, but that doesn't mean they should!
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Post by Crazygar on Nov 24, 2018 14:53:18 GMT -5
This is a recently started tank?
Gary
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Post by Xander on Nov 24, 2018 17:16:08 GMT -5
Yes, a brand new class tank for a class of children who haven't necessarily experienced owning a tank before
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Post by Crazygar on Nov 25, 2018 7:24:33 GMT -5
Well the problem is obvious, no time to cycle. Which would indeed see the Neons dropping like flies and the Danios happily going about their day.
Gary
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Post by lesfromlakeshore on Nov 25, 2018 8:18:51 GMT -5
Tank was running for a month before fish were added .
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Post by Xander on Nov 25, 2018 14:08:27 GMT -5
The problem is, in that fishless month that the tank is running, there is no source of ammonia, and so there's nothing to feed the bacteria. The bacteria won't grow if it's got nothing to eat.
Even fully cycled filter media will lose its cycle in a few days if there's no ammonia source to feed it
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Post by gabor129 on Nov 25, 2018 16:21:26 GMT -5
Ok hold on people!
Please understand that this is a tank set up a few months ago. We as the WAS members do not have access to the tank, and as it happens this is a great experience for the kids. We do not have to get into the nitty gritty of fish keeping here. We all know that water parameters are inportant, fish are not as resilient as a few years ago, some fish are more suitable to some environment than others.
With all that said, please let's try to help here without being too technical.
First off, the neons are gone! It was a learning experience for the kids, sometimes no matter what you do, you loose some fish! Maybe they were already sick or way too stressed from the pet store. Who knows!?
Lets move on! The remaining danios doing well! Great! Let's focus on that. Do a 20% waterchange to get rid of any residual fish waste byproducts that might have accumulated.
Second what are some well suited tankmates for these fast moving, agressive feeding fish?
Some fast moving tetras, swordtail , platys and mollies can hold their own with danios. We can arrange to get some of these for the tank and see how that will progress.
Most importantly a weekly 10% - 20% water change will keep the water clean, and remove byproducts of fish waste. This is a must! The students can help with this. Syphon out 1-2 gallons of water and replace it with 1-2 gallons of water that has been sitting for at least 24 hours to let the chlorine evaporate.
Please let us know when you done the water change so we can add fish to replace the lost ones.
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Post by lesfromlakeshore on Jan 21, 2019 22:19:37 GMT -5
So hopefully all this hasn’t scared you out of keeping fish . Some just go a little overboard but they are truly trying to help .
Any updates on the tank ?
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Post by phish on Apr 29, 2019 17:07:36 GMT -5
Hehehe... the key to successful fish keeping for beginners is keeping fish that can tolerate some negligence. Gold Barbs are great for beginners as well, but I doubt any members have them on hand.... and... since it's a 10 gallon tank, need smaller fish. Toss a couple mollies in there, they don't mind hard water either.
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