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Post by jred on Mar 5, 2020 16:49:21 GMT -5
Over the past couple years I have noticed that number of hobbyists keeping cichlids has dwindled dramatically - I understand people come and go from the hobby due to different circumstances, but it appears that there are not nearly as many people keeping them anymore. I wonder if it has to do with the aggression & maintenance required for these fish? I know even the tiniest tanganyikan fish can tear each other apart let alone the big bruisers can take out an entire tank overnight. Then the maintenance can be brutal, typically with rift lake cichlid require overstocking which results in a higher bioload or stocking with high waste creators like Oscars or other large cichlids can result in more water changes. In addition, most cichlid require at least a 55 gallons or more so you are changing more water than you would with a 20-30 gallon. As well I think there has also been a surge of the "planted tank craze" with most cichlids not fitting well into these tanks or eating the expensive plants hobbyists work hard to aquascape. I was just curious people's perspectives on the matter and what we could do to promote people to keep these kinds of fish. Maybe I'm totally off base and there are closeted cichlid keepers that I don't know but would be great to hear from you guys.
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Post by Crazygar on Mar 5, 2020 18:45:33 GMT -5
I'd like to argue that point..This belongs to my friend Travis in Denver. As you can see, he has Africans in his planted tank. The trick is keep them fed, and fed well.
Cichlids in this area has been so overdone for so long I am surprised it has taken this long for their popularity to finally fade. I personally welcome all those stepping over to the Green Side of things.
Gary
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Post by jred on Mar 5, 2020 19:30:39 GMT -5
I’m not saying it can’t be done, but typically cichlids will uproot the plants regardless of being hungry. That is an awesome tank you shared, funny I wouldn’t have picked Mbuna as they are notorious herbivores. Yes I agree cichlids are fading everywhere and it does have to do with education and newer species coming into the hobby, but even the “old worlds” have only been in the hobby for roughly 40 years with lots of new line bred stuff coming out. Maybe it’s the allure of the hard to find tetras and whatnot. I was thinking later on too could he the investment a Cichlid tank requires, if you have a stand 55 and overstock with 20 adults - each adult could cost on average $20-50 so that’s at least $400-1000 to stock it. Or if you want to grow out the fish, could take 2+ years to start seeing good colour. The only benefit of our water supply for this area is better for higher ph species, but then again lots of livebearers appreciate that too
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Post by Crazygar on Mar 5, 2020 20:18:02 GMT -5
Windsor has always been a Cichlid town as far as back as when I first started this hobby back in 1980 when I was 9.
I remember the Big Al's at Darwin Plaza across the road from Tecumseh Mall, and Corbrets, being IN Tecumseh Mall. Big Al's folded, they didn't specialize in Cichlids, Corbrets did. Corbrets you could barely get in. The place was constantly busy.
2000 to 2008 saw a boom of fish stores opening up, Strictly Cichlids being one of them and the other in Riverside. Both specialized in... you guessed it Cichlids.
Just about almost every Freshwater Aquarist I talked to this in area for past 39 years have been Rift Lake or Central American Cichlids.
This area has been supersaturated for so long, it's become blasé.
The only group of Cichlids that never really saw real enthusiasm by the Cichlid Keepers was Apistogramma. There were a few of us in those golden years that kept them, but were snubbed by the Rift Lake Keepers. Mainly because they were wonderful in Planted Tanks.
Now that Planted Tanks are finally getting a hold in the area (I believe I was one of four planted tank keepers in 2000-2006 in the area) some people are making the switch. It's only natural, tired of doing the same for so long.
Yes, when I lived in Winnipeg I kept a Tang Tank. Cyps (Blue Flash, absolutely stunning fish), Julies and Multi's. I took a break from Planted, why? I wanted to try something different. Even more is when the Cyps started to breed like crazy, at one point, I was literally giving them away to keep the population in check.
It's cheap to setup a Cichlid tank. Big Aquarium, Filter, Heater, Shells, sand, rocks and lighting just to view them. Equipment is basic. Stock prices may vary.
Embrace change.
Gary
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Post by jred on Mar 6, 2020 0:20:21 GMT -5
I would agree a lot of people have probably done the whole Cichlid show tank thing and are tired of seeing the same yellow labs and jack dempseys being sold. Or maybe they need something slightly less maintenance so they swap out for a low tech community tank with less bioload and let the vegetation absorb some of the nitrates for them. Either way, it seems like the local stores are definitely carrying a greater assortment of fish which is great for everyone.
It is funny how those specialty shops did exist but eventually faded, I can think of captain cichlids when I was first getting into the hobby - not sure how long he was open before but closed shop before I started really getting into the hobby.
I have no problem with people switching or favouring planted tanks, I think as technology progresses people are able to do the CO thing, better spectrum lights, etc. I was just wanting peoples opinions on what they are seeing or if they have made the switch, why did they do so.
I am currently playing with some hardier plants in my tanganyikan set ups and in my guianacara set up - unfortunately they keep uprooting the val so now i just leave it as cover for the swordtails.
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Post by Crazygar on Mar 6, 2020 7:11:23 GMT -5
Mbuna especially. I can't remember the last time I walked into a store (excluding Angelfins which is a specialist store) and not seeing a tank or more of mixed Mbuna. It's overdone.
Yes, things are changing. AquaAnimaniA carries a great selection of items geared towards the Planted Tank World. Whether that be smaller community fish, plants, equipment and substrates geared towards the Greener side of the hobby. In my eyes, it's about time.
If you want a good Cichlid to try, check out Apistogramma. Big Cichlid personality and behavior in a little Cichlid package. I still think there is a breeder in Forest Glade.
Gary
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Post by phish on Mar 6, 2020 8:36:26 GMT -5
Cichlids need bigger tanks. Bigger tanks mean more money and commitment. I don't care to keep plants and can watch cichlids interact for hours on end. They are always digging and courting, never a dull moment. If only Finatics was 300kms closer 🙂
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Post by Andre on Mar 6, 2020 13:37:45 GMT -5
I think the lack of stores in the area is playing a big factor in the decline of Cichlids in this area. Everytime i go to the local stores around here i leave shaking my head why did i even think they would have anything.
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Post by Crazygar on Mar 7, 2020 14:14:40 GMT -5
Detroit has tons of stores that have plenty of Cichlid varieties. If you want something bad enough, you'll go to great lengths to get it.
I personally think the "Cichlid Craze" is starting to wane as new demands in the hobby in the Area are surfacing.
Gary
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Post by phish on Mar 9, 2020 16:12:55 GMT -5
Detroit has tons of stores that have plenty of Cichlid varieties. If you want something bad enough, you'll go to great lengths to get it. I personally think the "Cichlid Craze" is starting to wane as new demands in the hobby in the Area are surfacing. Gary Personally, I'd rather drive to Toronto than Detroit. I spent who knows how much on swordtails, mollies, platys, gourami, etc... and they kept dying on me or getting sick... spent money on medication which would only only save 1 out of 5 fish. Then I discovered Cichlids (which I was told by "Big Al" that they weren't for beginners because they are aggressive fish). They may be aggressive if they aren't kept properly otherwise they are robust, colorful and intelligent fish. Honestly, I have had platys that were far more aggressive than some of the cichlids I have kept!
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Post by MadMatt on May 28, 2020 10:43:23 GMT -5
Cichlids are very close to the native fish to our Great Lakes, no wonder why they do so well in the Windsor water. Personally I’m changing over to a cichlid tank soon, I’ve done lots of different fish, cichlids always were the most long living in Windsor water. It boils down to two large factors, i) the quality of breed of fish you have (genetic illnesses, etc.) and ii) how well does the breed of fish do in Windsor water. Most fresh water tropical fish suffer grossly and eventually have shortened life expectancy purely on the result of Windsor water, regardless of tank cleanliness and care. I think Nimbochromis venustus is in my very near future!
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Post by Crazygar on May 29, 2020 5:40:10 GMT -5
That statement is completely false.
I used Windsor Tap Water all the way up to my return to the area in 2017. I have had successes with difficult sensitive FW Tropical Fish. Bred Otocinclus, Apistogramma and started with Discus.
I knew Discus breeders that simply used the regular water (aged mind you, but still tap water) that had stunning fish not only breed and survive but thrive.
While the water parameters have changed since 2008 (when I left, the pH of the Tap water was 7) it is still viable for a host of fish other than Cichlids.
Gary
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Post by MadMatt on May 30, 2020 15:44:13 GMT -5
That statement is completely false.
I used Windsor Tap Water all the way up to my return to the area in 2017. I have had successes with difficult sensitive FW Tropical Fish. Bred Otocinclus, Apistogramma and started with Discus.
I knew Discus breeders that simply used the regular water (aged mind you, but still tap water) that had stunning fish not only breed and survive but thrive.
While the water parameters have changed since 2008 (when I left, the pH of the Tap water was 7) it is still viable for a host of fish other than Cichlids.
Gary The PH is not consistent in the city of Windsor and it creeps to 8.3ph (the natural PH), because the source of water comes from lake st.clair at the mouth of the Detroit river. But the greatest cause is the parasites that thrive in the 120 year old city pipes coupled with a high ph, this greatly stresses the fish. I have never found anyone who breed discus in Windsor that could ever get them to “thrive”, myself being included. The tap water comes out of the tap from 7.0-7.8ph depending on your location in the city, then over 48hrs it’s creeps to the natural PH of 8.3 (from lake St.Clair). Any stress on fish shortens their life, discus in Thailand can live uppers of 14 years, good luck on getting them to live over 5 years in Windsor, most die at 3-4 even in the best conditions. But if you can crack the code to get them to thrive them by all means get breeding them, they sell over $100 easy per fish if they are top quality and $500-$800 per breeding pair. Best of luck and cheers.
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Post by Crazygar on May 30, 2020 17:57:34 GMT -5
Like I said, that was 2008 but it is still viable for other Freshwater Fish. Ask one whom has BAP points for breeding fish other than Cichlids in the club, especially those with fish rooms.
Gary
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Post by Crazygar on May 31, 2020 6:02:47 GMT -5
Well we will find out, I've contacted the Water Commission to shed some light on this. This statement needs to be confirmed or denied.
How did you get this information?
Gary
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